Sensei Speaks: Shigeru Miyamoto Interview - IGN

Miyamoto: When we were working on Mario, I was actually the principal director working together with several other assistant directors. In the case of Zelda, I have so many directors under me as the producer, so I think this game is rather improved because it represents the efforts of so many directors -- rather that one person's efforts to make this kind of game.

At the final stage of Zelda's development, there were around 50 people involved in the creation of the game. I can say that I have learned a lot about managing many people at once. And of course when it comes to the actual technology, you know, whenever we're talking about three-dimensional technology or something like that we realize that we're still all amateurs. There are no "professionals" in creating something in 3D, and likewise the players are not very familiar with [navigating] 3D environments, so we have to come up with new, efficient ways and solutions to making things work in 3D.

I think as for achieving a great three-dimensional representation of this kind of adventure game on the N64 -- or other interactive media -- we have learned a lot from Zelda. IGN64: Asides from the difficulty of three-dimensional space, what was the biggest challenge in creating these games?

Miyamoto: Probably the biggest challenge, or I should say the biggest question was whether this game would be really called "a game" and whether this new genre of games can be appreciated by players. I don't want to criticize any other designers, but I have to say that many of the people involved in this industry -- directors and producers -- are trying to make their games more like movies. They are longing to make movies rather than making video games. In the case of our team, we are not intending to make movies.

We are proud that we are now making a new form of entertainment called "interactive media". However, we are always striving to make our games more cinematic and we think we can improve our technology necessary for making games by looking at movies. For example, we had a couple of directors working on the effects in the games, movie-like effects in the case of Zelda -- but this is different from many other games that simply mirror movies and make use of pre-made characters.

With our games, we produce everything in real time. By simply changing the camera angles and letting the characters move on a real time basis, we achieve a game with the feel of a movie. Many other games simply show pre-recorded sequences instead. I think it was very big challenge for us to do Zelda differently, and as I said, we were not sure whether that kind of approach was going to be appreciated by game players. We were also worried that people were going to say "I like Super Mario better", or, "previous Zelda games were much more fun to play" and such and such.

IGN64: One thing we all get excited about when we play a "Miyamoto game" is that we know other designers will get ideas how to make games like that. What do you think other designers have learned from Mario 64, for example?

Miyamoto: I always try and come up with a clear theme when I'm making a video game. I myself don't play games a lot, but I got the idea for the original Star Fox after playing PC games. Before making Mario I noticed that the camerawork in video games could reflect the game creator's will. Or in other words, the camera angles are created so that you can have the view which is considered to be the best and most convenient view by the creators. For Mario 64 we wanted to change that. In that game, the player himself controls the camera and can decide to choose whatever angle he wants to play. After Super Mario 64, we decided that we wanted to do something else in Legend of Zelda. In the case of Mario 64, Mario himself was the center of the attention, in the case of Zelda, it's different. The center of the game is not Link, but rather the world which he lives in is a base for making the total world, the total gaming world, and the camera works has been designed in a way to reflect that concept.

The camera system is designed in a way to make players feel it's relatively easy to manipulate while Link performs relatively difficult actions. We wanted to give the impression that players are actually manipulating Link and the camera at their wish, but actually the game's AI is helping players a lot to do so.

IGN64: You once mentioned that Zelda was being designed with an open architecture and that you will eventually work on an add-on adventure. Are you still going ahead with "Ura-Zelda"?

Miyamoto: Yes, this installment of Zelda has been designed with the introduction of the DD disc drive system in mind. If the DD system is connected to your N64 and you play the cartridge Zelda, you can see on the title screen "Ura" (=another version of) Zelda. That kind of program has already been incorporated. There were several ideas that I could not incorporate into this specific game because of time constraints and similar other reasons. I want to have some new areas or new dungeons for the people who have already finished this game, in which they can have sometimes more difficult and more fun dungeons, and so forth.

Of course, we were assuming that the disc drive would be introduced in 1999. But as the DD system has not been introduced yet, there has got to be many other things like product viability issues and other issues that may not allow us to introduce another version or an Ura version of Legend of Zelda this year. So if something happens and we cannot bring it out, maybe we might have to have some special edition of the game which is only available through a contest or something.

IGN64: Are there any games at all that you feel have come close to your ideals of video games outside of Nintendo, outside of Rare as well?

Miyamoto: I think if they could have made Resident Evil for the N64 it would have been even better, but I have to admit that was one of the game ideas I wanted to realize myself. Other than that, PaRappa the Rapper, because it's a new style of video game. I appreciate PaRappa's creators' efforts, because at Nintendo -- even though we have so many game franchises -- we are always trying to create something new with each new game.

Because we are doing these kinds of things, we can appreciate the efforts made by the PaRappa the Rapper team to try to create a new genre. There is also a series of Japanese video games now called Yaru Dora. [Note: Yaru means "to do" and Dora is short for "Drama".] It's a new type of video games in Japan where game players are actually creating a story. You pick certain animations and then build a patch work story by connecting different portions of the animations.

There have been many games based upon these kinds of concepts by now, but the difference is that some game companies are now asking the creators in the industry of animation to make the material and make it available for video games. One of my colleagues, Mr. Ichigawa, is working in the animation industry, and he tells me that they are appreciating Nintendo's efforts not to approach the animation industry to do the work for them, but I still think it is a very interesting approach. Some of the people in the gaming industry, as I have said before, have been trying to make things that are more like movies and now talents from the animation industry are giving the gaming industry some ideas for a new generation of video games.

So if the movie people are simply trying to make games without thinking very carefully or honestly about making games, I believe this kind of approach of having anime creators help with video games is giving us some different ideas.

IGN64: As long as they don't tell you anything about gameplay?

Miyamoto: No, I actually appreciate moviemakers approaching the video game industry because they have a certain know-how that we don't have. If they are serious about making video games, maybe there is something we can learn and there is something that can help the expansion of the video game industry.

IGN64: I think this is the question many of our readers are asking themselves after having played Zelda: Do you think Zelda is the highpoint in the life span of Nintendo 64?

Miyamoto: Yeah, I hope so. But let's not forget that there is Rare and some other really good companies. But we have big hopes for Legend of Zelda. I think if we did it right, we can appeal to a very wide age group, from 8 to 70 years old.

IGN64: What would you like to have done differently in Zelda 64?

Miyamoto: Some of the synchronization between the timing of the music and timing of the sounds and some of the actions that I wanted to fine tune a bit more. There were actually also some ideas I wanted to incorporate, but because of the time shortage, I couldn't -- and if I may add this, I am not completely satisfied with the 3D system in Zelda, so if we could have had more time maybe it could have been somewhat different. But because at some point we have to finish our games, the new ideas we have may be incorporated in some sort of other game in the future. You are definitely going to see a new approach to three-dimensional representation in another game...

IGN64: Where do you see the next "Miyamoto" coming from?

Miyamoto: There are a lot of them. [laughs] In fact, even though Zelda is supposed to be my own project, there are many people who can say about parts of Zelda, "yeah, this is my game, this part of the game is my game". There are a number of people who can say that, and I think the number of these people is gradually increasing with each game. I think after Zelda, some of them can actually make their own games in the near future. For example, Yoshi's Story, I should say it is almost completely Mr. Tezuka's project, and there are other people working so hard and diligently. These designers are really good, and in the case of Ocarina of Time we were having many newcomers supported by "oldtimers" who had worked on previous Zeldas. When it comes to these professionals, most of them actually can have their own game as a director. It think it's the right time for them to become the producers of their own games. I would say that many new people are now surfacing.

IGN64: Is there anyone outside of Nintendo that you would regard as up and coming?

Miyamoto: Well, actually, there are many of really good designers, though I don't think they are direct competition for me. By that, I don't mean that I don't think highly of them, but I am someone who always tries to make something different. I compete with my own teams, rather than with any other specific developers. There are many people that are really good. What is peculiar about this business is that being creative is one thing, but having the mind of a marketer is another. This is the entertainment industry, so game designers have to have a creative mind and also have to be able to stand up against the marketing people at their company -- otherwise they cannot be creative. There are not that many people who fit that description. But when we are strictly looking at creative minds, I think there are a lot out there. I think if they can have more freedom in their offices to make the games they want we would make much better games.

IGN64: Will Mario 2 be an N64 title?

Miyamoto: We have made the outline for Mario 2 more than one year ago, but I haven't touched it since then. Luigi and Mario are running on the display on my desk right now on the disc drive. The original idea was to make this game available for the 64DD system, but because I haven't done anything on it for about one year or so, I cannot tell exactly what it will be like. Maybe I will ask some other people to work on it, or maybe we could think about making it for a completely different system -- but I don't know at this point in time.

IGN64: What are some of the major Nintendo projects that you will be working on in the next two years?

Miyamoto: Actually, I don't know to what extent and till when I can work as I worked on Zelda -- and talking about 1999, I don't think I can bring out any new title that I have devoted myself to thoroughly. But I am now working on the Mario Artist series as the producer. I think the Mario Artist series will be introduced soon, including Mario Paint, Talent Maker, Mario 3D Modeler, Sound Maker and that kind of stuff. That product line will be introduced [in 1999] and when it comes to some of the big names, I think the Super Mario RPG 2 will be launched, and of course Mother 3. EarthBound. IGN64 Did you have any input on HAL's Smash Brothers fighting game?

Miyamoto: That's right, I was forgetting about it, because it's almost out. It's actually been taken care of by Mr. Yawara's group. Mr. Yawara is the creator of the Kirby series for Nintendo. I have been relying on him to inform me on the final outcome of this specific game. I think we can make it to the market in January [in Japan]. And we were also working on Mario Party, which is a Hudson-developed board game for Nintendo. So between Rare and the other companies, there are a lot of N64 games coming out before summer. So even though I am saying that I am not going to introduce any significant games that I worked on thoroughly myself, there are still many good games you can look forward to.

IGN64: What did you think of Rare's Banjo-Kazooie?

Miyamoto: Yes, I admit that Banjo-Kazooie is a very high quality videogame. Talking about the 3D system, for example, it had a lot better 3D system than Mario 64 -- and they have come up with some great technology. For example, they have lots of enemies at the same time on screen.

IGN64: You once mentioned you would like Nintendo to develop games faster for the N64 and that perhaps reusing game engines would be one way to do this. Are there any specific plans to reuse the Zelda engine?

Miyamoto: We ended up utilizing quite a new engine for Zelda, created almost from scratch, but now that we have this new engine for N64 it is a waste if we don't use it again and again. I don't know whether it is going to be for the next Zelda or some other titles, but we will use the Zelda engine for future titles.

For example, the system for reproducing the background images in Zelda. Sometimes you see 3D reproductions, sometimes you see pre-rendered VR type scenes that may be good for the team working on Resident Evil. There are about five different modes for the reproduction of 3D scenes in Zelda. We put them in here on sort of a trial basis to show to game designers the potential of N64 technology and Zelda technology. So people familiar with the technology playing the game can get ideas and say "wow, this is a quite a new display method that I really want to use in my own game."

IGN64: Mario changed the industry without a doubt but what do you feel that Zelda will add to gaming? What do you hope will happen with the industry itself?

Miyamoto: I actually hope that Zelda won't influence other creators too much, because if they think seriously about making games like Zelda they will never be able to finish any other games! [laughs] If it wasn't for third-party titles, N64 wouldn't have many titles in the coming year.

Joking aside, we are always trying to make something new both in terms of technology and concept. People are becoming more and more critical, consumers are becoming more and more critical of the final product. I think the industry knows that when you are going to create a big project of the size of Zelda and you are try to make it as good as Zelda, it's going to take a long, long time. They have to understand that sometimes you have to stop and think -- and sometimes you have to engage in smaller, but still high quality projects. I think game creators and designers of videogames have to understand and appreciate that.

IGN64: You pretty much started your career by designing 2D platform style games. When will we see another 2D platform game from Miyamoto?

Miyamoto: I really don't know if there are many producers being trained in the creation of 2D games at Nintendo, so I think it's ideal if someone else comes up with new concepts, and especially if the producers and directors are coming out of Nintendo, that's ideal.

I've been often saying that the Rubik's Cube is my main rival. In other words, it stands for something new and unique. When something new is coming to the market, people notice it -- but it's unprecedented so they often don't realize that it can make it big in the market. So I am always telling myself that I should make something new myself. Maybe I am using an underlying system of a video game, but I would like to make something completely new. Actually, I am working on several different projects in that direction. The question is whether they're going to be something impressive and something entertaining for the end users, the customers. Because we are working on entertainment it must be fun for people to play. I don't know if they are really going to be interested, or not... But anyway, when working on those projects and thinking of new ideas, if any of them become interesting and challenging in the eyes of consumers, I think that's the time when we can say "we did it!"For example, we are working on the 64DD system in Japan. With the DD as a basis we are working on a new environment as well, and we have already introduced (in Japan) the 64GB Pak that can connect the N64 with Game Boy technology. What we will do next is to try and extend this N64 world and in the long run incorporate network ideas as well. Together we are going to construct a pretty new environment for gameplay. As you know, we also teamed up with a convenience store chain called Lawson in Japan and they are already started a relay system for games. Probably in the near future we can use it for the 64DD -- that kind of potential is already there. What we need here is a kind of framework or new environment where we can try new concepts, because if we are just concentrating on N64 technology we just don't know when we can finish one project. Zelda is the obvious example. It took years to make because we were sticking to one technology and we were aiming to make the best out of it.

IGN64: Speaking of taking advantage of technology, Nintendo America recently released the 4MB Expansion Pak. We were wondering if you were going to support it in future titles?

Miyamoto: Yes, the Expansion RAM Pak is necessary for the 64DD, so of course we definitely plan to include compatibility in our games, also in view of the disk drive.

So when we convert, for example, the games for the disk drive system to cartridge, we will probably need the Expansion RAM to make them work. And of course some people may not want the 64DD in Japan and only want to purchase the RAM pak alone, so we have to work on games which can make use of the expansion. But if we are going to make use of both systems -- some people have RAM paks, some people don't ¿ it's not very efficient to make games that work for both scenarios. So at Nintendo I want to work on the disk games, but keep in mind that they can be converted to cartridge games later. And finally there are high resolution mode games that require the expansion RAM pack. We are certainly working on those at Nintendo as well.

IGN64: Finally, let's pull one of our questions from our "Furious Five". If you had to be locked inside one of your games, which one would it be? And why?

Miyamoto: Zelda. Hyrule is the best place to be because it is so relaxing. Of course, if there was a scuba diving game, then I'd choose that game. But I don't have one.

Interview by Peer Schneider and Matt Casamassina

Thanks goes to the always enjoyable Minagawa-san for the translation.