NZFlag

Have Your Say

If you have an opinion on the issue of changing New Zealand's flag and you would like to share it with NZFlag.com, please write to info@nzflag.com. Unfortunately, due to the huge amount of opinion we receive, we are only able to post material which adds to that already published.

Opinion

28 July 2005

I am a very proud Kiwi who has lived overseas for some time now. Only after I moved overseas did I fully appreciate what a beautiful and unique country we have. Being away from home has brought me closer to my roots.

28 July 2005

9 July 2005

I came to New Zealand 17 years ago from England, became a New Zealand citizen 8 years ago, and like other new immigrants, I am very proud of my heritage.

Over the years I have encountered much “anti-Brit” and “anti-Pom” racist sentiment, particularly in the media, which is passed off as ‘humour’ or as the ‘growing pains’ of a nation trying to shake off its British Colonialist shackles.

I consider the use of the terms “Brit” and “Pom”, as colloquially used, racially offensive, and the Human Rights Act 1993 defines racial harassment as “behaviour that is uninvited and humiliates, offends or intimidates someone because of their race, colour, or ethnic or national origin… and... can involve spoken, written or visual material or a physical act.”

For this reason, I fully support New Zealand declaring itself a republic and choosing a new flag as soon as possible.

My hope is that by completely divesting its ties with Britain, New Zealand will finally be able to assume a mature, Asia-Pacific identity, so that European Kiwis in particular can shake off the Britishness that so many seem to be ashamed of, and finally give British Kiwis like myself the same respect and value that is so readily afforded to every other ethnic new immigrant group.
Phil Drane

26 June 2005

My name is Matthew Risser and I am from Nova Scotia, Canada.

Although I am a firm believer that the Monarchy is a great cultural tradition for those english speaking nations who were once part of the British Empire, I do not believe that because we share a Monarch that the 13 other nations that recognise Queen Elizabeth as their Head of State should be subject to Britain.

The Union Jack represents the nations of England, Scotland and Ireland and has absolutely nothing to do with the countries of Canada, Australia and New Zealand or any other nation in which the Queen is Head of State.

Canada changed its flag in the 60s and its high time New Zealand and Australia removed themselves from their colonial past and became equal and independent Kingdoms within the Commonwealth.
Matthew Risser
Canada

24 June 2005

I have served overseas with the NZ Defence Force (Army on several occasions) and find that it is very annoying , embarrassing and at times very dangerous to serve under a flag which is frequently confused with the Australian flag.

23 June 2005

For the last two years I've lived in Australia and have been very concerned about how the image of New Zealand is portrayed over here. The recent ANZAC celebrations were a prime example of how Australians see New Zealand as a partner in the World Wars etc. There was little mention of New Zealand in build-ups to the Gallipoli commemorations and I felt by looking at our flag how much they were the same.

We need our own identity with our main focus on the silver fern and kiwi images. We could still retain the general perspective of the flag but add the fern and make it more recognisable to those of us who choose to live overseas but are still very proud Kiwis.
David M Lysons-Smith
Acacia Ridge, Brisbane

23 June 2005

I have always felt that the NZ flag should represent the Nation in its entirety. The best and closest that I ever saw was the NZ cricket team's One Day International uniform of the 90's.

You will recall the silver fern diagonally cutting the upper torso with black on one side of the cut and teal on the other and the leaves of the fern being white on the black and black on the teal. As a draftsman I always wanted to develop this design but never sat down to do it. Maybe the time is now but honestly the design has been before us all the time.

Those colours on a huge flag would be awesome.
Jasper Horn

22 February 2005

My name is Hammond Peek. I am a Production Sound Mixer working on Peter
Jackson's KING KONG. I worked on THE LORD OF THE RINGS Trilogy and won an
Oscar for BEST SOUND - THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING.

I'm so glad this campaign to change our New Zealand flag is taking place. As
a growing, vibrant Pacific nation we have matured, and I feel strongly that
we now need a national flag that we can all instantly identify with and feel
proud of, that gives us goose bumps and makes our eyes water when we see it
flown. That embodies our beautiful country, multicultural people, creative
talent, innovative spirit, enthusiasm, determination to succeed, and sheer
get up and go. A flag that stands proud, stands out, and visually states to
the world "this is who we are, Kiwis, and we're proud of it".
Hammond Peek
Wellington

14 February 2005

Thames High School students have recently been caught up in the debate about the New Zealand flag. Should we change? Shouldn't we? If so, why? If not, why not? Being in an english class that discusses the topic of our flag openly, I have come to the conclusion that we should change our flag. Not just because a few people think it is time for a new one, but because I have read the facts and decided for myself.

The silver fern may be a symbol to some, but to the rest of New Zealand's population it is a widely known representation of us. We say that New Zealand is a liberated country, that we can stand up to the world and everything it throws at us, so why does our flag still say "Where Britain goes, we go"?? We need a flag that is easily distinguished as New Zealand's, NOT confused with Australia's.

To use the silver fern on a flag for our country would not only represent our sports teams, if it did only that then why was a fern the only logo on the WWI uniforms for NZ? Having a country as free as we are today, why shouldn't we vote on whether we need a new flag or not?

It's time to stop taking each other and the land for granted and do something that should have been done a long time ago - get a flag to represent the unique, multi-cultured country we are.
Kylie Josey
Thames

8 February 2005

In 1964 Canada was wrapped up in the great "Flag Debate". At issue was replacing the Red Ensign with a distinct, new symbol for a changing country. After months of rancorous parliamentary debate, the bill passed and on February 15, 1965, the new Maple Leaf flag was raised across Canada and at Canadian embassies throughout the world. At the time, the reception was decidedly cool; yet now it has become a world-recognized symbol. Congratulations to New Zealanders for going ahead with the desire to establish your own, unique symbol! From 40 years on, I can tell you most people won't remember what all the fuss was about!
Michael Maehle
Toronto

31 January 2005

25 January 2005

8 January 2005

I am Italian born and now a New Zealand citizen. I have been living in Waitakere for almost 8 years now and this is my home! I love it!

I have a Hundertwasser's 'Koru Flag', I think it is my favorite and instantly recognizable.

From an European point of view I can tell you that most people in the old continent (and other parts of the world) cannot distinguish the current New Zealand flag from the Australian.

Sad.

Ciao
Alessandra Zecchini

22 December 2004

I am not a New Zealand citizen but I had the wonderful experience of spending a semester abroad in New Zealand. I was very proud to wear a sash with the NZ historic flag on the day of my university graduation. I have to admit after spending all that time in the country, I was a little puzzled when I got the sash; it seemed not quite right, even though I had been educated on what the flag looked like before I left the States.

I spent my semester at Lincoln University in Christchurch (over the NZ summer holiday) and met up with cricket players; it was a wonderful experience! The cricket players were the ones who explained the silver fern to us. I don't go in for all the fancy tourist items in the shops -- this design felt elegant and simple and proud to me. I proceeded to seek out a black jacket with silver fern and still wear it here in the States.

I support New Zealand's goal to communicate its elegance and pride and refined nature. The American flag changed many times before it accurately reflected our country -- a flag, like a country, should always be a work in progress!

PS You do live in God's country (I hope to make it back!)
Crystelle
United States of America (Delaware)

5 December 2004

9 November 2004

Hello, I am Shannon Lindsay, I am 12 years old and go to Maidstone Intermediate School in Upper Hutt, Wellington.

I think changing the flag is a great idea! Changing it to a silver fern would be even greater. It shows our country with pride and honour for the past, present and future!

Our class has been studying flags and have realised that the Australian flag looks nearly identical to ours and people from all over the world cannot tell them apart. Having the silver fern would be a symbol only representing NZ because only we use it.

People say no because it shows no resemblance to the union jack/commonwealth but so many commonwealth countries don't even have the union jack meaning that why should we?

I'm only 12 but am very determined to change the flag so I support you all the way!
Thanks
Shannon Lindsay
Upper Hutt

28 October 2004

I join with the many Kiwis who have lived, travelled and worked overseas for many years. I identify with those who write their accounts of mistaken nationality at sporting events, official functions, trade fairs, backpacking hostels, in fact anywhere the 'official' flag is flown or worn.

When I last checked, New Zealanders were proud of their heritage, their nation, their sacrifices, history and culture. But almost uniquely among nations, we are consistently mistaken for another people. How is this? Are we too divided to agree on a way forward? Why do we cling to an emblem which angers people at home, causes embarrassment and indignation to Kiwis abroad, and is continually mis-identified even by foreigners who wish us well?

Let us hoist our national flag above the pettiness of finding a new 'brand', a new logo. We should demand from our politicians the right to claim our future. The people are speaking and those we have voted to represent us, must listen. National resources should be expended to resolve this. We should demand leadership which unleashes the creative energies of this fair country. Is the silver fern the best because it is readily recognised at home and abroad? Is this choosing a symbol of plant life simply following Canada? Is the maple leaf , with its balanced motif, intrinsically more suitable for flag design than the fern? Is it appropriate for us to use black as the dominant colour in a new flag? What image does this colour represent? To us? To the community of nations?
Peter Rattenbury

28 October 2004

Great to see everyone getting behind it. For my part the silver fern depicts what the New Zealand flag should look like.

I was once listening to someone commenting on National Radio about the pride America has in its own national flag. This was around the time of the America's Cup campaign. The person went on to say that it was only a pity New Zealand didn't have the same pride in our own flag. The irony of this comment was that two days later I was down at the viaduct basin watching the America's Cup and everywhere to be seen were people wearing black t-shirts with a white silver fern which said loyal. There were thousands of flags on the end of short sticks all being held by people who clearly saw our national symbol of pride as the silver fern.

It would appear that national pride is alive and well; NZflag.com could not have said it better: "New Zealanders simply don't identify with the flag we presently have."
Russell Phillips
Auckland

28 October 2004

I support the push for a new flag totally. There are a number of reasons:

1. The Union Jack may represent part of our history but it plays no part in our present or future except as it represents a minor trading partner.

2. We need a flag that represents our present and future. We need to look forward not back.

3. We need a flag that represents our independent identity, not one that suggests we are still tied to someone's apron strings!

4. It's a fallacy to suggest our forces fought and died for the flag; they fought and died for our country and a free world.

5. I love my Aussie cousins but I don't want to be the subject of protest, controversy or terrorism in the mistaken belief that I am an Aussie. I'd rather be shot for being a Kiwi. Actually, I'd rather not be shot at all. We need a flag that is unmistakably NOT Aussie and clearly states "Kiwi." The Silver Fern does it every time.

6. We need a flag that will inspire passion.

7. We need a flag that can represent the independent Kiwi and which we can represent with pride.

As for the style of flag, I worked for a brewery for 16 years and, during that time, saw our company and the opposition launch many dozens of new beers. None ever worked. There is always trouble marketing a completely new product with a completely new logo but there were many successes relaunching old tried and true brands; Steinlager (and its variants) and Export Gold (and its variant Export Dry) to name two obvious ones.

Any new design would not only have to be marketed to thousands of NZ sports and businesses, but it would also demand a huge international marketing campaign to all those billions of foreigners who, even 10 years down the track, would look at a stylised Koru and say, "What?" For this very basic marketing reason, I am vehemently opposed to new fancy flags, clever as they may be. Quite simply, we don't need to invent a new flag. We don't need to be clever at all. Indeed, we should discourage genius.The flag that all Kiwis recognise and identify with, is simply waiting for us to pick it up and fly with it as it were. It is the Silver Fern on black in its simplest form as worn by our sports people and already used internationally by a huge number of our businesses; not stylised; not adorned; just the Silver Fern on black that the whole world recognises and admires already.

The Silver Fern: Let's fly with it.
Roger Clarke
Te Awamutu

27 October 2004

I was directed to this site by a friend from NZ. Fantastic! New Zealanders deserve a new flag fitting of their unique status as a nation and a people. As a Canadian born after the flag debate raged in this country, I missed out on the whole debate by about a decade - but I know which side I would have stood on. Every time I see our flag or even just a simple red maple leaf, I'm reminded of the great country that I was fortunate to have been born in and feel lucky and proud for that. All New Zealanders should feel that way about their flag and national emblem.

On my coffee table is a book called "I Stand for Canada : The Story of The Maple Leaf Flag" which recalls our nation's flag debate. If you haven't read it, you should. Lester B. Pearson won the Nobel Peace Prize, was Prime Minister for 5 prosperous years, presided over Canada's Centennial and Montreal's Expo '67 celebrations, installed many social programs and infrastructure improvements and recently placed on a publically selected list of the 10 Greatest Canadians - but above all he will always be remembered as the man who gave Canada its own unique flag.

I'm glad our flag has inspired you. I hope that someday your flag will inspire the world.
T. M. Travis
Vancouver, Canada

22 October 2004

Saw your link on Trade Me, and I'm impressed by the quality of the site you have created and your obvious commitment to this vital issue of national identity. Some years ago (24 or 25 to be exact) I was resident in Oz, like so many of my generation, one day cricket was on its way up as the masses' favourite spectator sport (Days of Beige). In a crucial night match in Sydney NZ defeated Australia in a match that went down to the last ball. Superb bowling by a young Martin Snedden (cool under pressure) and focussed captaincy by Geoff Howarth showed the Aussies we were a force to be reckoned with (and the media moguls that they were onto a cash cow). The crowd erupted with joy and at the end an enormous party broke out in the stands (the Sydney cricket ground has a wonderful atmosphere) and a young man had a large black flag with a silver fern on it and ran through the crowd carrying it above his head. The final T.V. shot of the night from above him was his canter through the crowd and I knew instinctively that, that was our flag. I, like all those other Kiwis in the cricket crowd, identified with it. In those days there weren't sales of paraphenalia at sports games (marketing had not taken off, thank goodness) where this guy had got the flag from, who knows? Interesting that no-one had an official NZ flag to wave that night. Black and white, polynesian and pakeha, distinctive? UTTERLY!
Kia Ora
Shona

17 October 2004

Up until last year, I felt 'why change what we have had for years'. A flag is not just about how we feel about ourselves but how others see us. Since the Iraq invasion, others would see the Union Jack (hello Tony Blair) and the striking resemblance to the Australian flag (gidday Howard). We did not blindly join the Iraq invasion with Blair and Howard. I would like our flag to reflect, to ourselves and to others, the position we took, or rather didn't take in the past year. We can think and decide for ourselves on international matters.
R Wee

2 October 2004

I saw a link to your website www.nzflag.com on a www.trademe.co.nz website and initially I was offended. Just leave the bloody flag alone, do you people (whoever you are) have to keep changing everything? was my first reaction. On reading a little further I soon changed my mind, mainly because I do think a flag should be instantly recognisable and identifying, whether fluttering up on a flagpole or on a backpacker's pack. Australia has an all but identical flag and seems to be moving away from New Zealand in areas of foreign policy. I would rather we were not mistaken for Australians because of our flag, although the Australians are still good friends and allies of New Zealand.

You have my support.
Bart Hanson
Christchurch

2 October 2004

I agree that the flag should be changed, not just because it is easily confused with other flags, but because it is a part of our history that has no relevance or meaning for many New Zealanders today. When I see the silver fern on the black background, I feel a great stirring of pride and patriotism, not just for the sporting heroes it is often associated with, but other heroes less well known - I think of the fern on the gravestone of my great uncle, killed in World War I fighting for New Zealand. I think the Tino Rangitiratanga flag is also a great design, but as a European New Zealander it makes me feel excluded. The silver fern is a New Zealand icon that all New Zealanders can relate to and wear with pride.
Elizabeth Anderson
Waikato

28 September 2004

I am confused as to why there is such a feeling of loyalty for our current flag. It is not a flag that captures our spirits as "Kiwis", it makes us look like just another state of Australia! It is most certainly time for a change. The world stands to attention when a team bearing the fern walks out onto the pitch, or the court! Let's also fly it high above their heads and be proud of who we are and what we, as a country, have proven that we are capable of!
Kate Calder
ex Aussie and proud to be a Kiwi

28 September 2004

I just received your email about the new New Zealand flag and thought I might have a crack at submitting a design concept or two. Also attached is a photo of a job I've just finished which is quite relevant and something I thought you might be interested in having a look at (if you haven't seen it already). As I've just discovered in the process of designing the new logo for the Interislander, incorporating the silver fern is a certain way of infusing a brand with New Zealandness, and one that has the potential to conjure feelings of national pride. Whilst we submitted a number of concepts this was the one chosen - and I was happy with the choice. The 'Dolfern', as it's now called, adds a nautical twist to the silver fern by combining it with 'pelorus jack' – another NZ icon (and part of the previous brand) - positioning the interislander as a truly kiwi travel experience. I've always thought the New Zealand flag should have more relevance to our country as it has evolved and one that invokes more local pride. I think the fern is a logical choice and I would be surprised if the new flag (when it happens) does not include a version of this in some way. Anyway, I would be interested to know how one should submit work.

Tim Christie
Wellington

15 September 2004

A New Song Supporting a New Kiwi Flag called "The Black and the Silver Fern"

To listen to the song - http://www.hashradiostation.wanadoo.co.uk/aflagofourown.htm
Terry Mechan

14 September 2004

I think that the flag idea you are publicising on your website is not as attractive to look at compared to the silver fern that has leaves attached. I agree that we need a flag to represent us as a whole country, as "Kiwis", not as Maori and Pakeha.

The flag we have at the moment, I think, is very dominated by European settlers' views on themes. It represents their heritage. I agree that there is a lot of history 'tagged' to the flag, and a lot of people have fought underneath it with pride. But as the saying goes, let bygones be bygones.

The majority of the elderly people I have spoken to recently think it is a good idea for us to have a new focus. A new focus that is not about foreshore and seabed disagreements, but something positive - something good.

With a new flag, we can move forward as one nation, as Kiwis, and be proud with a new flag. This new flag can represent our new population moving through. I think that we need to have a new future based on something that symbolises us.
Sara Bignell
Whangarei

13 September 2004

I just wanted to add my support to the change the flag cause. I am currently living in London, where Kiwis are more patriotic than anywhere else in the world. They were proud moments when during the British coverage of the Olympics, it was the Kiwis who were receiving the gold medals.

A memorable moment of siteseeing around London, was walking past the Commonwealth Headquarters, and only correctly identifying the New Zealand flag at my third attempt. Firstly confusing the Australian flag and then a Pacific Island flag. If Kiwis abroad can't instantly recognise their own flag, what chance does the rest of the world have?

The silver fern is the image the rest of the world already has of New Zealand.
Alistair Bull
London

8 September 2004

I have just reviewed your site and am impressed with it. However, if you really want to know what we Kiwis think should be the New Zealand flag then just look at the latest Olympics rowing footage. There was roughly one old flag to ten silver ferns. Only they were not the solid fern that you display, rather they had leaves. This was the real representation of what we think. No korus, no kiwis, just the bold statement of the silver fern. And I proudly wore one too.
Dr Fraser Burling

3 September 2004

Canada changed its flag from the British Red Ensign to the very popular Maple Leaf in 1965. Now even a few young Americans want to put it on their backpacks when they go abroad. When I saw the British, Australian and NZ FLAGS at the Olympics I thought what a shame for such vibrant, young countries.
Farrell McCarthy
Miramichi, NB
Canada

31 August 2004

I would like to add my support to a debate around changing the NZ flag.

I feel although we have a tie to the commonwealth at the moment, I don't see that that has such an influence that we have to represent it in our flag.

Historically the commonwealth was very important to who we were, but life evolves and moves on and I feel the culture in NZ is now completely separate to the commonwealth. Obviously changing such a major emblem as a flag is not to be done lightly, but I feel very strongly that the Union Jack as such a predominant part of who we are is now not right.

A flag is something to be proud of and represent who NZ and her people are, and as you say in your article, this is shown by the fact that the silver fern was used more often than our present flag at the games (I'm not necessarily suggesting my preference as the silver fern).

I feel the time is right to start the process of change.
Lorraine Gardner Wood
Wellington

23 August 2004

New Zealand has been gifted with some of the finest land, people and heritage in the world's history – no wonder we are called "God's Zones" by many. Given our size our accomplishments are extraordinary.

All of these attributes mean that we have an incredible opportunity to become one of the finest nations on earth – particularly now during this period of great change globally. The challenges are enormous.

A central question emerges, "Who do we want to be – as we participate in this planetary emerging? – a question of identity."

Lloyd, your project is so "spot on" because it gives us permission to address this question directly. We are not who we were. We are changing rapidly. But, who do we want to be? This is the question posed by the prospects of a new flag.

I look forward to seeing what will happen.
Dave Breuer
Director, http://www.anewnz.org.nz

18 August 2004

I am doing my "big OE" in London and was recently telling my English friend, who is an intelligent guy and travelled in NZ for some months last year, that there was a campaign to change our flag. His response? "What's wrong with the silver fern? It's a great flag."

And that's why we have to change it!

Keep up the good work.
Rochelle Brown
London

18 August 2004

I get disillusioned by those who do not wish our flag to be changed. Reasons such as "people have fought for our current flag" don't really make any sense. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for those who have bravely gone to war for New Zealand... but they are fighting for New Zealand and for their family, not for a flag.

We need a flag change, and we need it now. And come on, there's only one design, the silver fern. There's nothing else it can be. I liken our plight to the Canadians. Their identity was once lost amongst the Empire with their flag, but that all changed when in 1964 they changed to their unofficial national emblem, the maple leaf. At the time I'm sure there were critics aghast at how any nation could possibly change their flag to that of a leaf... but look what it has done for them. When you see that flag you not only see Canadian, but you can 'feel' the Canadian.

This is the effect the silver fern would have. It's the symbol of our country, it has been there at all our great achievements over the years. More people overseas know us by the silver fern than any other symbol, so WHY wouldn't we want to capitalise on that. Our current flag is a joke - foreigners could not pick us out from the Australians or any of the other commonwealth countries that still show the union jack. We need something that will unite us. We are probably amongst the most patriotic people in the world but we have nothing to rally around. Our anthem is crap, Waitangi Day is a joke and our flag is just something we've all grown up with and learned to accept. Our nation has changed over the past 100 years into a group of imaginative, daring and passionate people and we need a flag that resembles just how unique and special we really are.
Chris Parker

16 August 2004

Dear Editor (of the Waikato Times)

A E Symons' emotive defence of the argument to retain the New Zealand flag reflects the typical RSA conservative point of view. But speaking as an ex-Serviceman myself, I have never forgiven the Brits for casting us adrift in order reap the doubtful benefits of EEC membership. In any case, an old digger said to me the other day that he fought for our country, not the flag. Further, there is no a gainsaying the fact that, like so many other countries, New Zealand is now a multi-cultural rather than bicultural society. What significance the Union Flag has ever had for Dalmatians and Dutch - and latterly Chinese and Somalis, I fail to see.

Symons has allowed sentiment to outweigh logic as clearly the Southern Cross no more reflects the spirit of this nation than it would South Africa or even South America. Further, and as has been argued so forcibly elsewhere, nobody can accuse the Canadians of disloyalty to the Commonwealth after they came up with such a stunningly ethnic design to replace their old 'Empire' flag.

As to the silver fern resembling the white feather of cowardice, I wonder what our athletes feel about this remark, particularly the All Blacks who have been proudly wearing it for at least long as the present flag has been flying. I would accept that having the black background is probably not a good idea but the overriding merit of the silver fern is that it unites all New Zealanders of whatever ethnic origin. In passing, it should be mentioned that silver is always shown as white in vexillology as, for example, on the Cornish flag. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction to see the number of young Chinese now attending rugby matches. Integration is so important, so good on them!
Frank E Bailey
Hamilton

16 August 2004

I'm an expat living in Chicago, and I fully support the move for a change to the NZ flag. So I was happily surprised to see that the news of the debate has even reached here in America.

While watching the Opening Ceremony of the Olympics in Athens on T.V. the other day, as the New Zealand team marched on (the only reason I was watching!), the NBC commentators mentioned the flag debate in New Zealand. I can't remember what exactly was said, but I think it's a testament to the good work you have done here, to get the issue talked about - that even here in America it is being mentioned at such a high-ratings event.

Good on ya.
Lynda Brendish

13 August 2004

Born and raised in New Zealand
Proud of being a Kiwi !
Proud of a multi culturist society !
But never had pride in our flag.
Nor our national anthem.
Deep down It's cold and It divides us !

A flag and anthem cannot include any reference to England/Maori/Religion etc etc
A flag that stands for all of us !

If UNITY is our future, then we, as a country, need a flag (and anthem) we can ALL be proud of !!
One like Frizzell's flag !, and an anthem like Australia's, followed by the haka.....WOW!
A new flag and anthem so powerful (just like the haka is), it'll bring tears to our eyes and warmth to our hearts !

It's time to stand tall and ALL be proud !
It's time for change !
Darryn Smith

13 August 2004

My husband and I are just home from an 8 week biking holiday in Turkey - I had a NZ flag stuck in my roadside panier for safety - hoping I would be more visible on the road. It worked but inevitably we were taken firstly for English as they saw the Union Jack, then for Australians which really upset me!! It would be great to have a very distinctive flag just for us - we now have our own culture and history to be proud of.
Maureen Cummings

12 August 2004

12 August 2004

Dear Lloyd
Great to catch up tonight. As discussed, here is an excerpt from a letter we received from the then Canadian Consul to Australia Mr D J Stimpson. In my view it is quite beautifully written and should be an inspiration to Prime Minister Helen Clark. Perhaps you could use this quote to inform her that Prime Minister Lester Pearson is still remembered affectionately by the vast majority of Canadians, because in 1965 he changed the flag - not because he did or didn't improve the economy, lowered interest rates or improved employment etc.

QUOTE:
"Public discussion of the issue was extensive and often heated. Parliamentary debate lasted through six months, although it is likely that this would have been briefer had the question not been seized on by the Opposition in the hope, through it, of toppling a minority government. Popular opposition to a distinctive flag tended to centre on nostalgia and was led principally by members of the Royal Canadian Legion, the Canadian equivalent of the Returned Services League. Support reflected a strong and growing sense of national identity and concern for the political consequences of a symbol perceived increasingly to be both inappropriate and provocative.

In retrospect, it seems clear that the national mood during the flag debate was deceptive. The immediate, universal and (for Canadians) surprisingly emotional acceptance of the Maple Leaf flag following adoption shows clearly that the overwhelming majority of citizens wanted a distinctive symbol but that this desire remained largely inchoate until a design of strong appeal was presented to them. Until then, and while many less appealing designs sought acceptance, indifference or hostility to particular proposals tended to be interpreted as indifference or hostility to the concept itself. In the event, opposition to a distinctive flag collapsed entirely following proclamation of the Maple Leaf flag and no move subsequently has sought its replacement. It is likely that historians will view the Canadian flag debate as an inevitable stage in our national maturation and as an early step in a more fundamental re-definition of our national identity."

You might also like to read Wing Commander Rollo Kingsford Smith's article on the flag and returned servicemen and women (copy below). http://www.ausflag.com.au/debate/nma/ag010400.html

When asked the question as to whether it is showing disloyalty to those who "fought and died for the Australian flag", I use Rollo's words:

"I certainly didn't fight for the flag and I didn't know anyone who said they did."

But equally as important a response is: "Who would dare denigrate the valiant service of those servicemen and women from countries such as Canada and South Africa who fought alongside Australian and New Zealand servicemen and women in WWI and WWII, because they have subsequently changed their flags and removed the Union Jack."
Harold Scruby
Ausflag Limited

12 August 2004

25 June 2004

I feel that it is appropriate that Lloyd has initiated this debate and that it should get wide currency. The challenge will be to get a consensus on the appropriate and meaningful alternative so there needs to be plenty of debate.

A national flag is an important symbol in building a sense of nation hood. Whilst many have made the supreme sacrifice for our flag, times change and it is now an appropriate time to rebrand our nationhood.There is no doubt that the current flag has good marketing colours in red, white and blue, but it is often confused with the Australian flag, even by the most careful of people.

In the late 1980s, as a New Zealand Member of Parliament on a New Zealand Parliamentary speaker's visit to Berlin, we were taken out on a boat for a cruise along the old boundary between East and West. The Germans who are normally so very punctilious about political protocol were rather embarrassed when we noted that the Australian flag was flying from the rear of the boat to welcome and accompany us. Needless to say while nothing was done about it as we were boarding the boat, we were whisked up the front for a briefing and on returning to the rear of the boat we noted that we were flagless for the remainder of the trip.

So all strength to the discussion on our national flag. It would be good for it to be something that all New Zealanders could feel a sense of strong affinity with and one notes how the US uses their flag as a symbol of nationhood. It will need appropriate symbolism as the South African flag has to become something of a new national symbol relevant to changing times. Too often New Zealand as a nation focuses on things that divide it rather than on things that we have in common. Perhaps a new more appropriate flag might be such a unifying force for our country both internally and out in the wider world.
John Luxton

23 June 2004

I was born in England but always call myself a New Zealander.
I am not sharp on Marae protocol but I mean well.
My heart is in this land.
We are unique.
You are right (a rare event!)
Our flag is too similar.
We are not Pakeha.
We are not Maori.
There are other flavours in the jus...
We are ourselves...
We are New Zealand.
A stylised fern on a black background does not speak for us.
But...
It speaks SPEAKS to debate.
Debate.
We are a FREE LAND.
MAY THE ANCESTORS GUIDE US.
Speak.
Talk.
Debate.
We are not a colony.
GET OVER IT.
We are moving on...
oh...and Mr Cullen...I did not enlist to be a STATE of Australia either.
Kia Kaha Koe!!!
Julie Louise Nevett
Wellington

11 June 2004

I congratulate Lloyd Morrison on a great website and PR programme promoting the idea of changing our flag, and stimulating discussion on our national brand identity.

I agree with his sentiments that 'a flag needs to connect emotionally', and that 'a new flag can honour our past'. I believe most kiwis would agree a flag depicting our silver fern on a black background would certainly work on both counts. The website argues this well.

I also agree that 'a flag should represent great design'. However, with respect to designer Cameron Sanders, I don't believe this is a great flag design. I think the problem was in the brief - to 'keep it as simple as the Swiss and Japanese flags'. In trying to create a symbol as simple as a circle or a cross, Cameron has taken the fern out of our fern. It just doesn't look like one. Let's take a leaf from the Canadians and make our organic icon instantly recognizable first, elegantly simple second. And let's take the pirate flag curse off by avoiding a symbol sitting in the centre.

Based on my work in design and advertising, locally and globally, I disagree with Lloyd's claim that 'a flag is a brand'. Brands live in people's minds, not up flagpoles. New Zealand is a brand. It exists as the sum of many individuals' experience of our country. The people we have met. The places we have been. The stories we have heard. The food and wine we have tasted. The sport, culture, geography and history we have experienced in a myriad of ways.

Our flag is the most visible expression of our national brand. Most would agree our current flag falls short. Most kiwis would agree that the silver fern on black represents us. However, most of the rest of the world would miss the point.

They'd get the fact that we're our own country now. That we've cut loose from Mother England's apron strings. And they'd link this go getter little country with the radical black and white flag to the go getter All Blacks, LOTR, no-nukes and sauvignon blanc they know and perhaps love.

These are big things for a new flag to stand for. Personally I'd like our new flag to stand for some big changes too. Here are some thoughts, some from me, some from Kevin Roberts (www.nzedge.com/speeches/edge2.html):

The Republic of Aotearoa - if the crown goes, so can the replacement name it imposed. We're nobody's 'new' anything - we are who we are.

Maui and Pounamu - the two main islands of Aotearoa, derived from Maori names for these islands. As exotic and unique as the current names are boring.

A new national anthem to celebrate our official independence.

If the monarchy goes, surely so too will the Treaty. Replaced by our constitution.

Saatchi's 'At the Edge' idea to replace the untrue and uninspiring '100% Pure' tourism campaign. A country at the edge of the planet. Where the world starts, everyday. The last country to be discovered, the first in an extraordinary number of ways. The Edge by nature. The Edge by attitude.

That's what our new flag could stand for.

By the way, I'm proud to be both a fifth generation kiwi, and recently, a British citizen.
E James Bowman
Auckland

2 June 2004

My name is Michael Felton. I am a New Zealander, currently on a two year working holiday visa in the United Kingdom. My brother Jon, who manages The Beaumont in Mt Maunganui, sent me information about the "NZ Flag" website.

I believe it is extremely important for New Zealand and New Zealanders to do something about the state of the NZ flag. We are lacking real identity with the current flag, and that is the main reason we wear All Black and Team NZ clothing.

As an antipodean in the UK/Europe I am often mistaken for an Australian even without muttering a word, just because I have a New Zealand flag sewn onto my pack. Even some Australians have fallen for the almost identical flags. Some New Zealanders over here also don't take to lightly of this misconception, and a foul look is usually all it takes for the people mistaking us to acknowledge straight away that we are in fact Kiwis.

A survey held in the TNT magazine in the UK said that over 80% of NZ expats in the UK wanted the flag changed! Mike Lloyd designed a flag, and it was this design that the survey was based on. I have attached a copy of the design, and a lot of friends I have spoken to prefer not to have our country flag identical to the All Black flag. I think Mike's design gives a good interpretation of our country.

I would like to volunteer my services for any sort of promotional events in the UK/Europe that could help spread the word, for example, The Athens Olympics or other events involving New Zealand in Europe. It is a good cause and I'm sure it's a matter of time until the flag is changed.
Michael Felton
London, UK

1 June 2004

When you serve overseas, as I did, you wear your identity as a serviceman, with a Kiwi flag and/or a round black patch with a white kiwi inset on your uniform. This was and still is our main point of recognition for other nations to identify our servicemen and women whilst on deployments. It was also a common fact that you could tell the Kiwis were in the area by the amount of black spraypainted "Kiwi" stencils adorning everything from trucks to buses to aeroplanes.

This did not however, put other nations off calling you an Aussie because they 'recognised' the flag on your arm as an Australian flag. Often this would have to be corrected in the normal Kiwi fashion.

There have been many overseas exercises and operations that I have had the privilege to serve on. It is always has been a tradition that a flag pole be erected and a New Zealand ensign (current design) be flying whilst the Kiwis are "in camp". It would be great to see a big black flag with a big silver fern on it flying around the world. I would encourage all our Servicemen and women to get behind this great idea of a new Kiwi flag.

The idea itself promotes our country's individual pride, passion and a bit of good old patriotism that this country needs in these often difficult times in the world that we live in.

What better way than to fly a flag that carries our identity, for our people and our country at the next Olympic Games in Greece. I would be more than happy to sponsor one of our athletes a flag to wear on the podium in Athens.

Hoping that the project gets the full support from the country that it deserves.
Jon Felton
Tauranga

24 May 2004

Jeffrey Paparoa Holman is a New Zealand poet and short fiction writer. He kindly submitted the following poem for the site.

Our present flag's a dismal rag
with the Pommie Jack in the corner -
our stars look like Australia's:
colonial nostalgia!
Let's make a flag
for who we are - for
Mãori and for Pãkehã.
Jeffrey Paparoa Holman. c.2004

9 April 2004

Hundertwasser - The Man and His Flag

In 1990 we were visiting family in Vienna when we spotted this styley, distinctive flag all around the city. To our surprise the Viennese told us that it was the New Zealand flag designed by Frederick Hundertwasser -never heard of it… or him.

A few days later we bumped into Frederick outside the KunstHaus Vien, got talking, became friends, and then spent a lot of the rest of our time there doing things with him. He was one of the most inspiring people I have met in my life. Hated by Architects, but treated like royalty by the people there who flock to his buildings which range from a gold plated rubbish dump control tower larger than Big Ben, to whole towns, apartment blocks and art galleries. He was in huge demand but he was very down to earth. His life, work and beliefs were inextricably integrated.

He was passionate about the spiral flag and gave us lot of them to give away to friends, on condition we flew it and took it down in a storm! On returning to Aotearoa we noticed the flag around the Coromandel, and in Nelson where it seems to have a “greenie” connotation but ours was the only one flying in Remuera, Auckland, where it looked styley, proud and quite sophisticated as they did in Vienna.

We were fortunate enough to spend a bit of time with Frederick in New Zealand up North. He said he believed his flag would one day be the flag of New Zealand. For him it was an offering to New Zealand rather than something he was trying to impose, so he had stopped the campaign of the 1980’s where it came very close to being given an official status by the Lange government. Instead of campaigning he decided to wait for it to develop naturally into the NZ flag as more and more people flew it.

Another offering he made was a design for Te Papa which he made a model of and sent to Wellington with an offer to design the building at no charge as a gift to New Zealand. After three months he phoned up to see if it had arrived. “Oh yes we were wondering what that was, we threw it out!” said the government official of a masterpiece worth hundreds of thousands of dollars!!!

Now the only structure of his we have in NZ is the kawakawa toilets which are a huge tourist attraction but we could still have his flag as a flag of our own.

It may not be his Flag that is finally chosen but I think we need to at least give it some more consideration. It seems to me to represent more than just the bush and the greenies. As well as a koru, there is a wave unfurling; there is the black of the All Blacks; the green of the bush; the white wave of a young nation, which can also be in silver - the silver fern it is becoming. It seems to me it could be the symbol of a nation with a soul and a purpose, something we hope our young people will grow into.

It hangs well off a vertical or horizontal flagpole and looks good in windy and light conditions. It is a flag which I believe goes beyond where we are now and helps call the way ahead.

When I came back to NZ from Vienna raving to my friends and about this flag, a friend of my father’s gave me this boy scout leader poem criticizing those who are wanting to change the flag. I will try to find it and have it printed below along with the response I wrote 14 years ago.

The time has come for a new flag and I support the call for a referendum - although I did not see the sense in splitting from England re the Privy Council and I would not want to change our national anthem.

While I am proud of our British and Maori heritage, it may well be we can signify something more than a blue-red British colony under the southern skies. Let’s see what flag emerges.
Ross Davis
Wellington

30 March 2004

Should we change the New Zealand flag?

When I first heard of the idea to change the NZ flag, my reaction was "can they do that?" It sounded way too radical.

But quickly I went to my own experience with the flag and the idea suddenly felt so right. I have always needed a little mind tickler to even remember which is ours! "Australians think they are better than us, so they have an extra star." Surely your country's flag should have more mind-share than that.

I have lived in the US for many years, a country where the flag carries a lot of weight both as a rallying point for the people and as its brand on the world stage. Old Glory is a wonderfully designed flag, instantly recognizable and flown proudly by many. A number of countries feel that way about their flag. We are entitled to as well.

When you think about it, what is our flag? A map? It says we are a British Colony in the Southern Hemisphere. It seems to have been designed by Brits for Brits - the Southern Cross is a badge of honor for them, proof positive that the Commonwealth spans the globe. Is that how we see ourselves, as an appendage of another country? Yes, maybe at one time, but not now. Actually, isn't it even a little embarrassing to have the Union Jack on our flag? In the US it begs the question -- is NZ still a British colony? Does it have its own government? We still belong to the Commonwealth, but hey, we are part of many alliances these days, several of which arguably carry more weight.

And should our flag even be about our allegiances? I think not. It should be about us - it should represent our country, our nature - it is our brand. We are an independent country finding our own way in the world. We need a flag that brands us, that is recognizable and that our people will fly with pride. This will take time and effort, but the more I think about this, any change is going to be for the better. And so put me down as a yes. Yes, we should change our flag and yes, we should do it soon.
Geoffrey Nixon

29 March 2004

Don Brash’s Orewa speech and National’s subsequent spectacular rise in the polls is, I think, saying a great deal more than just the need for New Zealanders to debate Maori issues. I think it signals unease and uncertainty about what it means to be a New Zealander. Don himself stumbled over that question during his interview with Kim Hill.

In some ways the easy part is that which Don has eloquently outlined, namely what we don’t want. The more difficult part of the equation however is still to be answered, namely, what do we want New Zealand to look like going forward? I think the call for a change in the NZ flag provides us with part of the answer. We want to clearly establish our identity amongst the nations of the world in a way which recognises our uniqueness as a nation made up of that blend between Maori and other cultures which we call kiwi.

We now have the exacting task of nation building if we are to move forward. It seems to me that a new and distinctive NZ flag can make an important contribution to that. Indeed it provides a focal point to express both our identity as a multicultural, bilingual nation in the South Pacific and encourage us individually to be proud and patriotic New Zealanders.

Thanks Lloyd for taking this initiative.
Gordon F Copeland MP
United Future

13 March 2004

The most powerful flag design available for New Zealand is the Tino Rangatiratanga flag.

If tino rangatiratanga means self-governance and the responsibilities that go with that concept, its adoption would be appropriate to a nation seeking to express emblematically its self-determination and independence.

Adoption of this flag, with its multiple meanings and its capacity to express the tolerance that remains the essence of the ongoing relationship between Maori and other New Zealanders, would also be a challenging, constructive and healing thing to do.

It's also a great design.
Pattrick Smellie
5th Generation Pakeha

12 March 2004

Before people will lend support to a referendum the obvious question will be "change to what"?

That answer can be provided by running a national competition that I believe would be well supported by the schools (primary, secondary) and therefore parents, along with any number of other opinions being offered. The competition would not provide a right answer or a wrong answer but would certainly stimulate interest in the issue and the momentum for change would follow. I would suggest prizes be offered to attract interest as well - say perhaps $250 each to 100 best options. Those 100 would then be published (printed or website) for general perusal and comment and people would be invited to cast votes on preferences. I am sure the Holmes show would give good coverage as a news item - both in pre-advertising and then review of the outcome.

Those 'select' 100 might be chosen from a panel comprising well-known NZers from a cross-section of NZ life (sporting identities and personalities etc.) - Kiri Te Kanawa, Ed Hillary, Sean Fitzpatrick, Susan Devoy, Tim Shadbolt, Lloyd Morrison, plus some youth - say 10 in all - to give credence to the thrust and increase public awareness.

Certainly the flag needs changing; the union jack is a relic of things long past.
Ray Muollo

5 March 2004

I have spent a large portion of my business life travelling the world and few non New Zealanders can distinguish between the New Zealand and Australian flags. Australia, being much larger is usually the first guess whichever of the 2 flags is shown. This alone is a good enough reason to change.

With no wish to lessen the emotion and patriotism that goes with a national flag, it is essentially a brand and no brand owner wants his brand to be confused with a much bigger brand - the Australian flag.

Of course the arguments of separation from the Union Jack are powerful but the main issue is to give ourselves that distinction that only an instantly recognisable flag/brand can bring.

It must be simple and a white fern on black is obvious.

The suggestion from another correspondent that we promote an alternative /parallel flag to the Union Jack for some years is a good one if the resistance to change is initially too great.
John Parker
Te Horo

29 February 2004

I agree we need a new flag, but are you correct in saying " we can only have one flag"? Keith Holyoake used a very clever strategy in the 1960's in regard to the National Anthem. He would never have "got away" with dropping God Save the Queen "at that time". So he gave equal status to God Defend New Zealand as our National Anthem The passage of time has seen the latter almost completely supplant the 'old Anthem.' In reality, he achieved an outcome that would not have been achieved by the 'head-on' approach, that you seem to see, as the only one.

So I strongly suggest your referendum include at least a fall back option of "Would you support giving equal status to an alternative New Zealand flag?" We have two Anthems, so why not two flags?

That approach allows the returned soldiers who revere the present flag to continue to do so, and cuts the ground from where most of the opposition is coming. If you want, I could mail you a letter I wrote to the Editor of the Timaru Herald, advocating that strategy - midst my main contention that it is time we became a Republic, - and which has been seen as "moderate" even by a frequent letter writer (D.W. Hodge) who is constantly saying the present flag must not be touched, because of the sacrifices made by servicemen who fought under it.

The servicemen are not going to be around forever, and I suggest you have the option of waiting another five to ten years, or getting a new flag in now by using the "Holyoake approach."

Think about it.
Denis Dowling
Timaru, New Zealand

25 February 2004

Greetings, Kia Ora Lloyd

Congratulations on the campaign and your knack of generating a public debate on very important issues.

One powerful historical element in favour of the fern for our new flag is that it is the same symbol proudly displayed on the headstones of New Zealand service men and woman buried overseas (at least in Commonwealth War Cemeteries in Europe). I remember visiting the grave of my uncle - killed in action for the RNZAF in World War II and buried in Grimsby, England. The New Zealand graves stood our starkly and powerfully with the simple fern adorning the headstone amongst all the other nations buried nearby. This is important to raise in the debate with Returned Serviceman's Association - they may have fought under our old flag but their comrades are buried for ever under the Silver Fern.

We fully support a change of flag and unless something else profound comes along feel that a black flag with some version of the silver fern is the obvious and best choice. Above its long and deep associations with New Zealand is the fact it is different and stands out - which is exactly what New Zealand needs in a crowded world.

We will be making a donation to the campaign and send our very best wishes for its success.

PS: getting a jump on Australia also appeals - it would be a massive shock!
Chris Adams

17 February 2004

Firstly, I fully support the changing of New Zealand's flag to a more modern and relevant style. Something that all NZers can be proud of and recognise as their own. However, while I think the Union Jack should go, I am very keen for us to retain the Southern Cross. I believe that it is a powerful and instantly recognised symbol of New Zealand and is as relevant today as it ever has been. I know it may not seem unique, as Australia have a similar design, but I've always thought of the Southern Cross as an NZ symbol, especially as we see (and use) just the four main stars and not the extra ones that the Australians use (which I believe dilutes the potency of the symbol itself).

Of course, I also believe that we should use the silver fern in some way and I do like the treatment it has been given by Lloyd Morrison, but I think it would be stronger if it somehow incorporated the Southern Cross also.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, and I whole-heartedly agree that no change should made unless supported by the majority of New Zealanders. By registering my support for the changing of the NZ flag on your site, am I inherently also supporting the design you have chosen.
Matt Hunt

17 February 2004

Good morning, I am an ex-pat. Kiwi living in the United States. I heartily endorse the idea of a change of design for the NZ flag. It should have happened decades ago.

Ever since I was a child growing up in Tawa I have been uncomfortable that New Zealand was so "clinging to Mother England's apron-strings." Being proud of our British heritage is one thing: Being unable, or unwilling, to clearly establish our own international identity is another.

There is a lot of confusion between NZ and Australia in the minds of many Americans I meet. No matter how many times I say I'm from New Zealand, people meeting me later will "remember" that I'm from Australia. Grrr! Having nearly identical flags certainly doesn't help.

The silver fern is an excellent choice. My only concern is that the stylised image looks very much like a white feather, which has negative connotations. The fern image with fronds visible, has been readily identified as a New Zealand symbol on sports uniforms etc. for many years. Why change it?

Is there any thought of incorporating the Koru, another clear-cut image, into the flag design along with the silver fern to acknowledge the importance of Maori culture in New Zealand's development as a nation? On the other hand it might be more unifying to have a symbol that is not clearly identifiable as either Maori or Pakeha. Hmmmm. I'm glad I'm not the one having to make these decisions! Good luck.

I'm looking forward to learning the outcome of this initiative, and will be among the first to order the new flag when it becomes available.
Sandra Comfort Eckert Wichita, KS USA

16 February 2004

Congratulations to Lloyd Morrison for tackling the thorny issue of updating the New Zealand Flag.

When watching an American TV program recently (the Grammy awards I think) I noticed a lead performer wearing the American flag as a top. I remarked to my wife that we would never see that in New Zealand (with the current flag). Why is that I wondered aloud? Are New Zealanders less proud of our nation? I ventured it is because the NZ flag is not very distinctive and its confusingly similar to the Australian flag.

I personally agree that its time for a change. To those that say we need to go slow I'd challenge them to justify why they think that. Status quo and reluctance to change often seems to permeate in New Zealand. Add a good dose of tall poppy syndrome and we don't move forward.

The rationale for a change seems clear. Confusion abounds between our national flag and that of Australia. Updating the flag is no disrespect for those that have fallen in defending it and what it stands for. After all they were upholding principles and a way of life, symbolised by the flag. To update the flag should reinforce those traditions not abandon them.

Here's a chance for New Zealand and New Zealanders to make a mark and stand out. Making such a change will also create a great deal of media coverage for NZ and could reflect well on us. A modern country taking the lead in the new millennia. It would be nice to get the jump on the Aussies as well.

My suggestion is to add to your website: 1. An email form that has a message of support for the debate/the change and check boxes for sending email copies to the Prime Minister and whoever else you think needs motivating. 2. A poll or survey... "Do you support a change in the NZ Flag?" Y/N Tracking the responses will allow you to gauge the sentiment of visitors to your site. Thanks and good luck from Hong Kong.
Andrew Batchelor